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Maths for CGi

5 players @ $15 each = $75
5 Players @ $30 each = $150
1 Sub @ $30 each = $30

75+150+30 = 265

@foxw0w. That is actually over $200 for a CGi team to compete in a season.

Unless you offer high prize pools and offer it to more then top 2 it is a joke. Since CGI don't get a lan.

I Think everyone understands a change in the business model of CyberGamer. It is well overdue. I think there are much better methods of generating revenue for prize pools & lan finals then upping the costs and furthermore tipping buckets of water on the heads of most mid/hid level team organisations in this country.

Edited twice, last edited 8/10/16 - 8:41am.
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Quote from dashwow on the 9th of October 2016:
Quote from foxw0w on the 8th of October 2016:
What you all fail to realise is that most of you pay more for ESEA league+subscription.

Yet with this you have access to tournaments with prize pools every week, like ESEA a pugging system which is still trying to be bettered with invite restrictions etc.

How is a business sustainable if it doesn't make any money? Stop being so quick to hop on the bandwagon of "cg is a money scamming website" and think before you type. Youre literally not even going to have to pay that much extra for your season and on top of that you get benefits...


Do not use ESEA as a comparative. Regardless of how much you pay for ESEA, in Open it's 10$ per player, 50$ naturally per team, the pug fee many people are happy to pay due to the quality of the ESEA pugging system, at the very least it's anti-cheat.

Premier, sure, a bit more dear, but the top two teams get all fees paid for flights and accommodation to a global LAN to compete against the best teams in the world.

Tell me that compares to the 4k first prize that CG offers in CS:GO CGp and I'll happily accept these new fees lmao.
Me and Dash don't agree on alot, but hes got a point. This is what happens when you monopolize a local market.
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Quote from sorb on the 9th of October 2016:
Quote from dashwow on the 9th of October 2016:
Quote from foxw0w on the 8th of October 2016:
What you all fail to realise is that most of you pay more for ESEA league+subscription.

Yet with this you have access to tournaments with prize pools every week, like ESEA a pugging system which is still trying to be bettered with invite restrictions etc.

How is a business sustainable if it doesn't make any money? Stop being so quick to hop on the bandwagon of "cg is a money scamming website" and think before you type. Youre literally not even going to have to pay that much extra for your season and on top of that you get benefits...


Do not use ESEA as a comparative. Regardless of how much you pay for ESEA, in Open it's 10$ per player, 50$ naturally per team, the pug fee many people are happy to pay due to the quality of the ESEA pugging system, at the very least it's anti-cheat.

Premier, sure, a bit more dear, but the top two teams get all fees paid for flights and accommodation to a global LAN to compete against the best teams in the world.

Tell me that compares to the 4k first prize that CG offers in CS:GO CGp and I'll happily accept these new fees lmao.
Me and Dash don't agree on alot, but hes got a point. This is what happens when you monopolize a local market.

Considering CGp has never been the same price as CGi either, can naturally assume that CGp for CS:GO will have a per-player price HIGHER than the stated 15$, considering it does say "May vary per game depending on LAN finals". That 15$ per player is probs for fkn rocket league where they have an 800$ prize pool and no LAN finals.

CGp orgs have fun with your 30$ per player, plus the premium fee hehe xd
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Quote from dashwow on the 9th of October 2016:
Tell me that compares to the 4k first prize that CG offers in CS:GO CGp and I'll happily accept these new fees lmao.

tbh there isn't much you'd happily accept regardless of what it is.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/oyjb1pd.gifv[/img]
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You better start releasing the analytics because from an orgs perspective we are forking out a tonne more to support you and we get nothing back. You don't give us any info as to the viewership/traffic, you don't put us in contact with any sponsors, you don't aid with our sponsor promotions.

So from my point of view, having multiple teams playing in CG is starting to cost an arm and a leg for literally 0 kick back on our end. More than happy to support CG like I always have, but will need some support in return.

Every other organisation we deal with assists in all these areas, CG is the only one that hasn't so far.
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Quote from Asterix on the 8th of October 2016:
For managers and such that want to pay just the one big fee, in the CG credits area of your profile you can now deposit to CG credits and then sort out the individual payments without all the additional credit card fees per transaction.
are you saying you can still pay bulk but now its just cg credits?
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Quote from MajinDabura on the 9th of October 2016:
You better start releasing the analytics because from an orgs perspective we are forking out a tonne more to support you and we get nothing back. You don't give us any info as to the viewership/traffic, you don't put us in contact with any sponsors, you don't aid with our sponsor promotions.

So from my point of view, having multiple teams playing in CG is starting to cost an arm and a leg for literally 0 kick back on our end. More than happy to support CG like I always have, but will need some support in return.

Every other organisation we deal with assists in all these areas, CG is the only one that hasn't so far.
Okay, time to clear some stuff up for you...

The chances of us seeing such info are slim and of course he doesn't have to show it, unless he is in a giving mood.

These sponsors you refer to, which i'm assuming your talking about the ones you see in the "sponsors" tab, they sponsor mainly gear for finals and i'm assuming maybe a SMALL asset to the prize pool because Australia isn't insanely large in terms of eSports compared to other countries. CG is not here to gear any teams you are in and will not give out contact info willingly of these companies. Getting sponsorships is and always has been the teams or orgs job of doing, I would really like to see these orgs you speak of landing you sponsorship's and helping you in general with them, CG is a community, a place where players meet, play against each other, talk shit to each other and so on...don't expect them to wait hand and foot on you. Becoming a finical strain? That's awkard, last time I checked no one MAKES you play in the p2p.

Hopefully I cleared some things up for you.
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Quote from HydroxZ <3 on the 9th of October 2016:
Quote from MajinDabura on the 9th of October 2016:
You better start releasing the analytics because from an orgs perspective we are forking out a tonne more to support you and we get nothing back. You don't give us any info as to the viewership/traffic, you don't put us in contact with any sponsors, you don't aid with our sponsor promotions.

So from my point of view, having multiple teams playing in CG is starting to cost an arm and a leg for literally 0 kick back on our end. More than happy to support CG like I always have, but will need some support in return.

Every other organisation we deal with assists in all these areas, CG is the only one that hasn't so far.
Okay, time to clear some stuff up for you...

The chances of us seeing such info are slim and of course he doesn't have to show it, unless he is in a giving mood.

These sponsors you refer to, which i'm assuming your talking about the ones you see in the "sponsors" tab, they sponsor mainly gear for finals and i'm assuming maybe a SMALL asset to the prize pool because Australia isn't insanely large in terms of eSports compared to other countries. CG is not here to gear any teams you are in and will not give out contact info willingly of these companies. Getting sponsorships is and always has been the teams or orgs job of doing, I would really like to see these orgs you speak of landing you sponsorship's and helping you in general with them, CG is a community, a place where players meet, play against each other, talk shit to each other and so on...don't expect them to wait hand and foot on you. Becoming a finical strain? That's awkard, last time I checked no one MAKES you play in the p2p.

Hopefully I cleared some things up for you.

You have clearly never run an org or worked on a professional level with anyone.

Hi-Rez (Smite) help most of the orgs that play pro league with sponsors, ESL help with sponsors and analytics, ESEA introduce you to sponsors if you are on the top end, other gaming orgs always help out with sponsors, the gamers network will put you in contact with anyone you need and aid you with analytics, Riot aid with sponsorships and promotion.

So uh yeh, they kind of should assist here. I'm not after their sponsors, but they clearly have contacts.
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Quote from MajinDabura on the 9th of October 2016:
You better start releasing the analytics because from an orgs perspective we are forking out a tonne more to support you and we get nothing back. You don't give us any info as to the viewership/traffic, you don't put us in contact with any sponsors, you don't aid with our sponsor promotions.

So from my point of view, having multiple teams playing in CG is starting to cost an arm and a leg for literally 0 kick back on our end. More than happy to support CG like I always have, but will need some support in return.

Every other organisation we deal with assists in all these areas, CG is the only one that hasn't so far.
Firstly, i'll say you should wait for the CSGO announcement.

I have run a gaming site for almost 10 years, I have made $0 "profit" from CyberGamer, I volunteer my time because I enjoy putting time into the community, even though CSGO appears to have far more toxic players than COD did.

However like most of our volunteers that time could be spent anywhere else making money. Plus my time for CG is administration as well as actual web-development which I could just do for money elsewhere. Financially I could sell the site off and be in a far better position personally, any proper company would have made these changes and far more along time ago. I am not trying to screw you over, I'm trying change the site into a sustainable model that doesn't quite literally require me to loan the site money when a payment comes in late.

CG does what it can to help our teams/organisations "in general". But there is far to many orgs out there and it's easier to remain unbiased than to somehow help get a sponsor for a team or two. If you can provide some suggestions on how we can help all organisations without favoring just one or two I am open to suggestions.

I do not need to provide any numbers to you whatsoever, but for the sake of it I will provide you some. For CSGO alone without the costs of an actual LAN final and without the general costs of actually hosting a big website:
$750/month for our CSGO servers.
EAC costs about $185/month.
Plus we have a storage unit and all sorts of CGPL associated costs that are year-round.

On all entry fees and deposits across the site we lose 10% to GST, we also lose 2-3~% to transaction fees.

For last CSGO season, the total amount paid to us in entry fees was $12,590. Minus 13% for GST + transaction fees and you have $10,953. Minus the CSGO servers and EAC for 3 months and you have 8148 left for "prizes".

You can find most of these numbers here:
http://au.cybergamer.com/payment/

The total amount paid out in prize pools was $12,240
Thus the entry fees ideally should have taken in $4,092 more last season, purely to MEET our costs, without a LAN final, which we held.

CGP:

1st - 4500
2nd - 2000
3rd - 500
4th - 500

CGi:
1st - 1250
2nd - 750
3rd - 250
4th - 250

CGm:

1st - 625
2nd - 375
3rd - 180
4th - 60

CGa:
1st - 500
2nd - 300
3rd - 150
4th - 50


Thus our advertisements and sponsors and "voluntary" cg premium subs covers the costs of you receiving an incredibly good deal. Further there are a many other things that cost us money that CSGO uses, such as the cost of running the website servers, hosting 1000's of demos etc.

Further this new model will see us change how we operate in the future and your players will receive more overall. I would suggest as an organisation you might consider only paying for half of your teams premium fees, and 100% of the actual entry fees for CGm+.

While i'm sure there will be even more upset people to come, these changes are not done to "money grab". It is done so that CG can turn into a proper business. And so that 6 months from now people will see CG premium as something they want to buy in order to access all sorts of cool things. Finally, as i've now hopefully explained the reasoning to the costs, if you still don't like them you're welcome to just not compete, you will at least not be costing me money anymore.

Thanks

Edited 6 times, last edited 8/10/16 - 11:48am.
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Quote from Asterix on the 9th of October 2016:
Quote from MajinDabura on the 9th of October 2016:
You better start releasing the analytics because from an orgs perspective we are forking out a tonne more to support you and we get nothing back. You don't give us any info as to the viewership/traffic, you don't put us in contact with any sponsors, you don't aid with our sponsor promotions.

So from my point of view, having multiple teams playing in CG is starting to cost an arm and a leg for literally 0 kick back on our end. More than happy to support CG like I always have, but will need some support in return.

Every other organisation we deal with assists in all these areas, CG is the only one that hasn't so far.
SNIP CAUSE IT'S HUUUUGE

So where the fucks the sponsor money going to? Last season you had 3 extra sponsors that aren't currently advertised on CG, nVidia, AOC and Plantronics, add in Gigabyte and you have four multi-million global corporations that have a major audience in gaming, yet you're not getting anything out of them?

Should just release a financial statement and be fully clear about where everything is going.
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Quote from dashwow on the 9th of October 2016:
So where the fucks the sponsor money going to? Last season you had 3 extra sponsors that aren't currently advertised on CG, nVidia, AOC and Plantronics, add in Gigabyte and you have four multi-million global corporations that have a major audience in gaming, yet you're not getting anything out of them?

Should just release a financial statement and be fully clear about where everything is going.
I've done more than enough above, i've showed that you received more in prize pool money than entry fees and we ran a lan final and you're still upset. I don't think any further discussion with you is of use.
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Quote from Asterix on the 9th of October 2016:
Quote from MajinDabura on the 9th of October 2016:
You better start releasing the analytics because from an orgs perspective we are forking out a tonne more to support you and we get nothing back. You don't give us any info as to the viewership/traffic, you don't put us in contact with any sponsors, you don't aid with our sponsor promotions.

So from my point of view, having multiple teams playing in CG is starting to cost an arm and a leg for literally 0 kick back on our end. More than happy to support CG like I always have, but will need some support in return.

Every other organisation we deal with assists in all these areas, CG is the only one that hasn't so far.
Firstly, i'll say you should wait for the CSGO announcement.

I have run a gaming site for almost 10 years, I have made $0 "profit" from CyberGamer, I volunteer my time because I enjoy putting time into the community, even though CSGO appears to have far more toxic players than COD did.

However like most of our volunteers that time could spent anywhere else making money. Plus my time for CG is administration as well as actual web-development which I could just do for money elsewhere. Financially I could sell the site off and be in a far better position personally, any proper company would have made these changes and far more along time ago. I am not trying to screw you over, I'm trying change the site into a sustainable model that doesn't quite literally require me to loan the site money when a payment comes in late.

CG does what it can to help our teams/organisations "in general". But there is far to many orgs out there and it's easier to remain unbiased than to somehow help get a sponsor for a team or two. If you can provide some suggestions on how we can help all organisations without favoring just one or two I am open to suggestions.

I do not need to provide any numbers to you whatsoever, but for the sake of it I will provide you some. For CSGO alone without the costs of an actual LAN final and without the general costs of actually hosting a big website:
$750/month for our CSGO servers.
EAC costs about $185/month.
On all entry fees and deposits across the site we lose 10% to GST, we also lose 2-3~% to transaction fees.

For last CSGO season, the total amount paid to us in entry fees was $12,590. Minus 13% for GST + transaction fees and you have $10,953. Minus the CSGO servers and EAC for 3 months and you have 8148 left for "prizes".

You can find most of these numbers here:
http://au.cybergamer.com/payment/

The total amount paid out in prize pools was $12,240
Thus the entry fees ideally should have taken in $4,092 more last season, purely to MEET our costs, without a LAN final, which we held.

CGP:

1st - 4500
2nd - 2000
3rd - 500
4th - 500

CGi:
1st - 1250
2nd - 750
3rd - 250
4th - 250

CGm:

1st - 625
2nd - 375
3rd - 180
4th - 60

CGa:
1st - 500
2nd - 300
3rd - 150
4th - 50


Thus our advertisements and sponsors and "voluntary" cg premium subs covers the costs of you receiving an incredibly good deal. Further there are a many other things that cost us money that CSGO uses, such as the cost of running the website servers, hosting 1000's of demos etc.

Further this new model will see us change how we operate in the future and your players will receive more overall. I would suggest as an organisation you might consider only paying for half of your teams premium fees, and 100% of the actual entry fees for CGm+.

While i'm sure there will be even more upset people to come, these changes are not done to "money grab". It is done so that CG can turn into a proper business. And so that 6 months from now people will see CG premium as something they want to buy in order to access all sorts of cool things. Finally, as i've now hopefully explained the reasoning to the costs, if you still don't like them you're welcome to just not compete, you will at least not be costing me money anymore.

Thanks

First point, supporting the orgs at the top level (particularly the consistent ones), would be a start. Everyone here knows who the top tier orgs are. Looking at ASIC registered orgs would be another way to determine who is legitimate or not. You don't need to support ALL of them, but it's clear who is putting in the work.

I've made -$35,000 since Jan 1st this year running an organisation. I get no support from anyone, and the fact CG turn around and don't want to support me when I'm sitting here supporting you is a joke bro. If you help me, I can help you even more. It's that simple.

I don't need to know your finances (although that would be nice to be made clear, not just from you but literally every organisation), and I appreciate the effort CG and the volunteers put in. All I'm saying is we can't sit here as a community and play this greedy style of development and not assist each other.

Final note, I'm more than happy to see you make a profit, I would love to see you make a profit but it's just muddy water right now. Orgs have to lose money/more money, just so you can gain? Help everyone out my man and lets do this together.
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Quote from Asterix on the 9th of October 2016:
Quote from dashwow on the 9th of October 2016:
So where the fucks the sponsor money going to? Last season you had 3 extra sponsors that aren't currently advertised on CG, nVidia, AOC and Plantronics, add in Gigabyte and you have four multi-million global corporations that have a major audience in gaming, yet you're not getting anything out of them?

Should just release a financial statement and be fully clear about where everything is going.
I've done more than enough above, i've showed that you received more in prize pool money than entry fees and we ran a lan final and you're still upset. I don't think any further discussion with you is of use.

So you're telling me, that if out of 6 sponsors, if we exclude mWave providing they gave you PC's or whatever for LAN, that you got 4-6k? And 4 of them are globally massive?
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Quote from MajinDabura on the 9th of October 2016:
Quote from Asterix on the 9th of October 2016:
Quote from MajinDabura on the 9th of October 2016:
You better start releasing the analytics because from an orgs perspective we are forking out a tonne more to support you and we get nothing back. You don't give us any info as to the viewership/traffic, you don't put us in contact with any sponsors, you don't aid with our sponsor promotions.

So from my point of view, having multiple teams playing in CG is starting to cost an arm and a leg for literally 0 kick back on our end. More than happy to support CG like I always have, but will need some support in return.

Every other organisation we deal with assists in all these areas, CG is the only one that hasn't so far.
Firstly, i'll say you should wait for the CSGO announcement.

I have run a gaming site for almost 10 years, I have made $0 "profit" from CyberGamer, I volunteer my time because I enjoy putting time into the community, even though CSGO appears to have far more toxic players than COD did.

However like most of our volunteers that time could spent anywhere else making money. Plus my time for CG is administration as well as actual web-development which I could just do for money elsewhere. Financially I could sell the site off and be in a far better position personally, any proper company would have made these changes and far more along time ago. I am not trying to screw you over, I'm trying change the site into a sustainable model that doesn't quite literally require me to loan the site money when a payment comes in late.

CG does what it can to help our teams/organisations "in general". But there is far to many orgs out there and it's easier to remain unbiased than to somehow help get a sponsor for a team or two. If you can provide some suggestions on how we can help all organisations without favoring just one or two I am open to suggestions.

I do not need to provide any numbers to you whatsoever, but for the sake of it I will provide you some. For CSGO alone without the costs of an actual LAN final and without the general costs of actually hosting a big website:
$750/month for our CSGO servers.
EAC costs about $185/month.
On all entry fees and deposits across the site we lose 10% to GST, we also lose 2-3~% to transaction fees.

For last CSGO season, the total amount paid to us in entry fees was $12,590. Minus 13% for GST + transaction fees and you have $10,953. Minus the CSGO servers and EAC for 3 months and you have 8148 left for "prizes".

You can find most of these numbers here:
http://au.cybergamer.com/payment/

The total amount paid out in prize pools was $12,240
Thus the entry fees ideally should have taken in $4,092 more last season, purely to MEET our costs, without a LAN final, which we held.

CGP:

1st - 4500
2nd - 2000
3rd - 500
4th - 500

CGi:
1st - 1250
2nd - 750
3rd - 250
4th - 250

CGm:

1st - 625
2nd - 375
3rd - 180
4th - 60

CGa:
1st - 500
2nd - 300
3rd - 150
4th - 50


Thus our advertisements and sponsors and "voluntary" cg premium subs covers the costs of you receiving an incredibly good deal. Further there are a many other things that cost us money that CSGO uses, such as the cost of running the website servers, hosting 1000's of demos etc.

Further this new model will see us change how we operate in the future and your players will receive more overall. I would suggest as an organisation you might consider only paying for half of your teams premium fees, and 100% of the actual entry fees for CGm+.

While i'm sure there will be even more upset people to come, these changes are not done to "money grab". It is done so that CG can turn into a proper business. And so that 6 months from now people will see CG premium as something they want to buy in order to access all sorts of cool things. Finally, as i've now hopefully explained the reasoning to the costs, if you still don't like them you're welcome to just not compete, you will at least not be costing me money anymore.

Thanks

First point, supporting the orgs at the top level (particularly the consistent ones), would be a start. Everyone here knows who the top tier orgs are. Looking at ASIC registered orgs would be another way to determine who is legitimate or not. You don't need to support ALL of them, but it's clear who is putting in the work.

I've made -$35,000 since Jan 1st this year running an organisation. I get no support from anyone, and the fact CG turn around and don't want to support me when I'm sitting here supporting you is a joke bro. If you help me, I can help you even more. It's that simple.

I don't need to know your finances (although that would be nice to be made clear, not just from you but literally every organisation), and I appreciate the effort CG and the volunteers put in. All I'm saying is we can't sit here as a community and play this greedy style of development and not assist each other.

Final note, I'm more than happy to see you make a profit, I would love to see you make a profit but it's just muddy water right now. Orgs have to lose money/more money, just so you can gain? Help everyone out my man and lets do this together.
I could make a form for all orgs to provide me with information which I pass along to all of "CGs sponsors", which there is under 10 of them. It might help 2-3 orgs find a sponsor, I'm happy to give it a shot, but I don't see it having much of an impact. I certainly can't make our sponsors do anything, regardless how good your application is to us, they may just not care in sponsoring teams.

Further I cant just go sending your info off to companies that have no relation with us, so there is still a limit on how many I could ever help regardless how much time I put into trying. And to be honest I think the success rate would be very low given that there would be 100's of legitimate applications to us.

At the end of the day, as an organisation it is on you to choose what competitions are worth your time competing in. We actually have enough trouble getting our own sponsors.

I'm sorry if these price changes make it so you're unable to compete in our leagues, but at the previous prices the only real alternative is to scale them way way back, or to somehow get our sponsors to pay us twice as much, which is simply not going to happen and it would just increase the risk of us being in deep trouble if a sponsor fails to pay us.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
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Love is blind, and greed is insatiable.
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